Message Board
| Message Board > Manly Pandas (Probably NSFW) > Is God's love unconditional? |
| November 13, 2005, 17:29 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts 
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I brought up this subject through a submittion to the boredome thread (where I included a line in my drawwing stating "There is a God and He loves you, no matter what you have done!"). I thought it would be misplaced to discuss that line there, so I started this topic. Anyway, yeah I believe that there is a God that loves you unconditionally. That doesn't mean that He likes everything you do, it may well be that he disgusts some of the things you do. But no matter what you do/did, still God loves you. ____________ |
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| November 13, 2005, 17:52 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts 
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You got it all wrong, my love is very conditional and you just ruined it for yourself. Come to think of the next big question, Is the cucumber's love for the nun unconditional? ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 13, 2005, 19:25 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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I try to keep respect to people that don't share my views...
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| November 13, 2005, 19:30 | |
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PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts 
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Quoting PB: I try to keep respect to people that don't share my views... yOU MEAN IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL? ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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| November 13, 2005, 19:51 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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I mean that if you disagree with me, or even if you're angry with me, you can still show respect while telling me so.
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| November 13, 2005, 19:54 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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I also try to keep respect to people that don't share my views. No really I do, but 'different views' are more applicable to things that are really a matter of opinion, and you're just waving away things that most people agree on as fundamental facts, gotten from scientific progress. It's a bit hard to reply serious to such sillyness. This is a programming community. Most people here are smart, highly educated and have a well developed opinion so I doubt anyone is going to be influenced by this *I try to push my god on you* thing. With love, Rincewind ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 13, 2005, 20:12 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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Thanks, I think this is a lot better communicating. Although I'm not sure if you know what I mean by views. With views I mean the fundamental parts that you think everybody agrees on until you meet someone with a different view. It's the way people look at life. An opinion is something you can understand. You can understand why someone with the same view has a different opinion (for example why they vote for a different political party). By the way, you are saying that most people believe that there is no God. I'm afraid I'll have to disapoint you there, but most people do believe in a God. And to be a preacher you must be high educated, so many Christians aren't stupid eigher. ____________ |
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| November 13, 2005, 20:31 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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Quoting PB: By the way, you are saying that most people believe that there is no God. I'm afraid I'll have to disapoint you there, but most people do believe in a God. Actually I was saying people here are wise enough not to start believing in a god just because you happen to be advertising it. Gosh why would one want to advertise 'god' on a programming community anyway? O_o And I'm fine with your different views as long as you don't try to press them upon other in unrelated places like this(*programming* community). But ofcourse, you're free to start topics like this in the wastelands, but then again I'm free to reply anything I have on my mind. ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 13, 2005, 20:40 | |
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Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts 
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Wheeeeeeee.
____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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| November 13, 2005, 21:00 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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Ok I probably misinterpretted that you where saying most people didn't believe in God ("and you're just waving away things that most people agree on as fundamental facts, gotten from scientific progress"). I agree that this is a programming community, that's why I put it in the wastelands forum. There is a lot of chatting going on in the Booleansoup community that isn't related to programming in any way. I belive that it's most important in life to choose for God, that's why I "advertise" it. If people are alowed to talk and discuss about all kinds of nonsense, then why not something as important as religion? I've seen and heard of several occasions where people who resisted most against faith, became a Christian themselves. So I won't loose hope for this community that soon. Besides you don't have to read the wastelands forum, if you only want to discuss programming. You don't have to visit this thread if you don't want to discuss religion. It's clear what both are about... Also I'd like to say that you're in your right saying that you can reply anything that you have on your mind. At least thats what the forum description indicates ("Flame all you like; anything goes, and nothing gets deleted."). I do think though that that is's not a pleasent way of living. And if you insult someone deliberately, I thinks that shows you have little respect for them. ____________ |
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| November 13, 2005, 21:21 | |
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Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts
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Quoting PB: I belive that it's most important in life to choose for God, that's why I "advertise" it. I don't believe it is most important in my life to choose for god. Besides, should I have chosen that and chosen for god, the most important thing would have been gone.Quoting PB: So I won't loose hope for this community that soon. You'd better, I'm FUBAR.Personally I don't like to talk about god with someone who is 100% certain there is a god and can't be convinced otherwise. It would be useless, because I can't be convinced your god exists.Therefor I try to evade the issue most of the times. Also you seem to be offended by someone not believing in a god and saying that, but this could be turned around and someone could be offended by you believing in a god and saying that. I think it's rather annoying hearing the god/jesus/holyness talk over and over again. * Sandman is listening to Blut Engel - No god ____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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| November 13, 2005, 21:40 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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Quote: Ok I probably misinterpretted that you where saying most people didn't believe in God ("and you're just waving away things that most people agree on as fundamental facts, gotten from scientific progress"). Ah right, I thought you were referring to my other line ('so I doubt anyone is going to be influenced by this *I try to push my god on you* thing '). I know there are a lot of people who (still) believe in god. But because human knowledge and insight keep growing, fewer people turn to religion. Hundreds of years of enlightment and you're just trying to wave that all away? School teaches you quite different things than what christianity states, and that's not for nothing. I suspect a poll would prove that a smaller percentage of high educated people believe in god than those who've had a lower education. And that has a reason! I'm getting a bit tired of this advertising though, nobody here is going to be converted. I mean, read your first post of this topic...for most people that point (conditional/unconditional love of god) is not even worth discussing because they don't believe in a god anyway, and I am sure you saw that one coming. * Rincewind is listening to: System of a Down - Angels deserve to die (Chop Suey) [Edited on November 13, 2005 by Rincewind] ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 13, 2005, 21:55 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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Did I mention that I have full control over my own actions and thoughts? I shape my own destiny. In your words such a person would be considered a god, probably. If I want something, then instead of praying for it, I work towards that point. The more I try to get something done, the bigger the chance is that it's going to happen. It's all a game of chance. And I'm doing everything to win it. ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 13, 2005, 22:19 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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Ok so: - You both let me know you rather not talk about this - Sandman finds it anoying to hear about faith that mutch - Rincewind is getting tired of this "advertising". > My faith is something that's merged into my identity if you know what I mean. I'll try to talk less about this when it's not appropriate... - Rincewind thinks that what school teaches doesn't fit within Christianity. > I disagree with that, I can't think of any fact that is scientifically proven that I can't agree about because of my faith. - Rincewind *suspects* the result of a poll would prove that most intelligent people are not Christians. > If this poll is done properly I think the results will be that many scientists wouldn't have properly concidered religion, because they are specialised in their thinking and didn't spent mutch time at religion. I also think many who did spent some time on it, would say that they don't know if there is a God (just like they don't know if there are aliens). So the interesting part would be to poll the most intelligent people who did thoroughly look into Christianity. - Rincewind said that I saw it comming that *most* people don't find it worth discussing the subject of the thread. > Rincewind is right, but as I said, I still have hope for this community 
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| November 13, 2005, 23:01 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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Quoting Rincewind: Did I mention that I have full control over my own actions and thoughts? I shape my own destiny. In your words such a person would be considered a god, probably. If I want something, then instead of praying for it, I work towards that point. The more I try to get something done, the bigger the chance is that it's going to happen. It's all a game of chance. And I'm doing everything to win it. In my words such a person would not be concidered a god. God is almighty, you are not. Surely your actions have influence on your life, but it isn't any different with me. Prayer does help though, especially for things that are beyond your controll. ____________ |
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| November 14, 2005, 00:27 | |
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Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts
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Quoting PB: because they are specialised in their thinking and didn't spent mutch time at religion. I wonder why they didn't spend much time on religion.Quoting PB: Prayer does help though, especially for things that are beyond your controll. Of course prayers work, but only for the one who believes in them. Prayers don't work because there is someone listening, they work because people THINK there is someone listening and helping them, so they automagically feel better and think they, with the help they think they'll get, are better up to the task they need to do, but they do it without any 'real' help, just the help they get from themselves. In other words: god does not exists in the way some people think he does, but he does 'exists' for every *believing* individual in the form of BELIEF: the very FACT that people believe in him, makes it that he 'exists' for those who believe in him, but just in the form of SUPPORT, NOT the *real* cr34t0r of this u|\|~v3r$e or some other things the b!B|_3 wants us to believe. He is just the support some people need in this life and that support is provided, because everyone in need of a god, believes. So everybody's happy. Hallelujah! Btw, I don't believe. ____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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| November 14, 2005, 09:04 | |
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Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN 722 posts 
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what
____________ boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine |
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| November 14, 2005, 11:30 | |
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PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts
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This is all rather silly. PBGamer was not trying to force his views on anyone. He was simply wanting to talk about god's love and how uncoditional it is. Rincewind your arguement that science disproves religion doesn't cut water either. Religion does not need to be defined or definable by science to be a religion. Not to mention the fact that science has on numerous occasions gotten it wrong (the atom), so it is hardly flawless in what it can and can't disprove. - Rincewind thinks that what school teaches doesn't fit within Christianity. > I disagree with that, I can't think of any fact that is scientifically proven that I can't agree about because of my faith. I went to a presentation brothers school and we talked about God less then PBGamer does. Also they didn't teach me anything that conflicted with christianity. 100 years of what science is conflicting with christianity? I'm afraid to say you can not dismiss christianity so easily so please think of a more lucid argument in future ( the "prove god exists one" doesn't work either). Anyway moral of the story, if you don't want to talk about religion don't reply. p.s. is Sandman a l33t christian or what? b!B|_3 ??? [Edited on November 14, 2005 by PEader] ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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| November 14, 2005, 18:28 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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Quoting Peter: Rincewind your arguement that science disproves religion What? Have I said that anywhere, at all? You're just seeing what you would love to see, peteyboy. As if I don't know christians are hypocrit bastards that alter their views everytime something is being ruled out by the better (ideas that are based on things). For example the bible, people have taken all stories literally for centuries but now science outrules that most stories ever took place, christians starts saying it's only a lesson and all stories never took place. Now shut up and continue the christian civil war that's being fought in Ireland, catholicism needs you to smack those protestant tards!And PB, I'm sure you are aware of what a dumb politician in the Netherlands proposed to teach us as a possible *alternative* for evolution theory, being ID theory. Naturally she was laughed at by everybody. Basically it's just undercover creationism and since it was meant as an 'alternative' for evolution theory it seems the christians that believe in it actually dismiss evolution. How pathatic is that? Seems every christian believes in something else, they can't even form a cooperative front can they? Quoting Peter: I'm afraid to say you can not dismiss christianity so easily so please think of a more lucid argument in future ( the "prove god exists one" doesn't work either). Hear hear haha. Quoting PB: > My faith is something that's merged into my identity if you know what I mean. I'll try to talk less about this when it's not appropriate... Thanks, though this part of you didn't emerge in the beginning of DIV-ARENA, it's something of the latest years isn't it? [Edited on November 14, 2005 by Rincewind] ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 14, 2005, 22:01 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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Thanks for standing up for me, PEader. It's nice to know there are people who don't ridicule of things they can't know (but then I knew already that you wheren't like that). About Sandman's argument against prairs, I disagree with you obviously. I believe there is much power in prair. According to scientists faith can be strong enough for someone to heal himself, so technically that way it can be explained that people are being healed through prayer. On the other hand, I've also heared of stories where people rise from the dead through prayer, after medicals declared his death. I've found a video where this happens online, but I'm afraid to watch it to be honoust. I'd also advice against watching sutch videos if you don't know what you're into. Much supernatural healing isn't healthy for your soul at all! (not all miracles come from God) Rincewind, you say that Christians today say that the stories in the Bible never take place. I find that with most Christians I know (including me) this isn't the case. Maybe there is a church in your region that preaches this or something, but I think most Christians still believe that the bible happened. About the revolutions theory, it is true that many Christians don't accept this theory. Personally I've never really studied the theory so I don't know that mutch about it. There seems to be a flaw in the theory though, since it wouldn't be possible for organs like the eye to evolve from as good as nothing... About that every Christian seems to believe something else. Christians in the western world unfortunately seem to fight about the details a lot, that's why a lot of different types of Churches exist. Personally I think that our faith should be based on the bible, if everybody does that, there might be small diferences, but you don't have to fight about that. For example, I've heared that the first split of the protestant church in the Netherlands was because of a discussion if the snake in Genesis could talk or not. I find it sad that a church splits because of such a relatively unimportant fact. If you look at the churches in coutries where life's less easy, churches are sometimes huge:  (this is a picture from a church event in Nigeria) About my faith being emerged at the start of DIV-Arena. I've converted on April 13th 1999, so at that time I was quite a young Christian, I was a Christian though. Also I must admit that I do write more about my faith than I talk about it. That's because it's easyer to say whats on your mind when you're writing... It might even be so that in total I've written more than that I spoke...  [Edited on November 14, 2005 by PB] ____________ |
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| November 14, 2005, 22:31 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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So but PB, if I get this right you're believing the stories in the bible took place. Then that would include the genesis part about creation, right? If mankind was created 'out of the box', then how does this fit in with evolution? Are great apes and us are not having the same (ape-like)ancestors then? What I'm trying to say is that there's a lot of christians who try to fit everything in - they say god created everything as a big perfect mechanism - including evolution, the big bang, physics laws, etc. An eye doesn't just suddenly appear on a creature as you probably know - it all go's gradually, most processes start by random mutations. If a mutation is advantageous, then the creatures that have that mutation will have a higher chance to survive or to get more/better offspring. Perhaps after a lot of mutations there grew a very primitive lightsensor knob on an animals head, which happened to give that animal a small advantage. Some of the animals with that knob had more mutations, and apparantly those who happened to have a mutation that the lightsensor could distinct colors, fitted more to their environment. This way creatures with unadvantageous mutations get less offspring that fits to the environment than those with advantageous mutations. Etc etc until the knob grew out to an eye.Quoting PB: Much supernatural healing isn't healthy for your soul at all! (not all miracles come from God) I think I've heard you say a couple of times to beware of black/white magic. Apparantly you believe these things actually exist? Do you believe there's such thing as magic? Do you believe there's a devil? [Edited on November 14, 2005 by Rincewind] ____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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| November 14, 2005, 23:43 | |
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PEader
お前はもう死んでいる 1486 posts
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Quoting Rincewind: Quoting Peter: Rincewind your arguement that science disproves religion What? Have I said that anywhere, at all? You're just seeing what you would love to see, peteyboy. Quote: As if I don't know christians are hypocrit bastards that alter their views everytime something is being ruled out by the better (ideas that are based on things). That is just trying to flame not to mention disgustingly small minded. I am not a hypocrit or a bastard. Do not call me something because of my religion.Quote: For example the bible, people have taken all stories literally for centuries but now science outrules that most stories ever took place, christians starts saying it's only a lesson and all stories never took place. What you think and what is right is irrelevant. Who says the stories are true, who says they aren't? At no stage in my entire life has a priest turned to me and said these stories are or are not true. So where are you getting this shit from? I'm not a liturgist so am not qualified to talk about the bible I can only say how I personally interpret it and I'd prefer not to get into my own personal beliefs. However I see you have an intricate understanding of it. Have you read it all? Maybe you can fill us in with your enlighting observations, maybe you can show me the error of my ways. Quote: Now shut up and continue the christian civil war that's being fought in Ireland, catholicism needs you to smack those protestant tards! Do not comment on something you do not understand. If you did understand it you would know that it had nothing to do with religion, although sectarinism is involved and that it is not a civil war. Do not dismiss my nation's struggle for independence and civil rights as some sort of nonsense. You're own nations track record isn't too good. Ireland has never had any colonies. Please tell me how the Netherlands got colonies?Quote: Quoting Peter: I'm afraid to say you can not dismiss christianity so easily so please think of a more lucid argument in future ( the "prove god exists one" doesn't work either). Hear hear haha. You are simply being an ignoramus. I expect for you to tell me to "STFU and die newbie". ____________ I see 57,005 people. |
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| November 14, 2005, 23:43 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts
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I don't know how acurately we should take the story about the creation of the earth. Reason for this is that I think that Genesis is written in a way that it could be understood by men from all time. I suspect that many facts are left out of the creation of the earth. I think that by reading the bible, you should realise that it's written in a certain time (and Genesis is a verry old book, written down in the time of Mozes), so when things get scientific, you should realise that some things are just written in a way that it would be understood in that time. I do believe the story in greater lines though. I do believe that God created the earth and everything on and around it. Whether that was in 6 days or 6 periods and if the story of the apple was actually refering to monkey-like creatures disobeying God by choosing knowledge of right and wrong, I just don't know. I do believe that the stories from Mozes on can be accepted a lot more precisely, because they where written at the time of the event. I absolutely believe that there is a devil. The devil was an angel created by God and called "Lucifer". He was one of the three most powerfull angels and the most beautifull of the three. Because of that he became rebellian against God and God banned him from Heaven. He took 1/3'rd of God's angels with him as an army. So satan is definately not a power you should play around with... ____________ |
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| November 15, 2005, 22:46 | |
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Eckolin
Quite Whiskered 388 posts 
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Quote: Is the cucumber's love for the nun unconditional? I'm not sure if the cucumber is capable of loving. I'll get back to you once I investigate the matter more thoroughly  Quote: For example the bible, people have taken all stories literally for centuries but now science outrules that most stories ever took place, christians starts saying it's only a lesson and all stories never took place. Not all Christians. In my opinion the passages of the Bible should be read plainly, rather than literally per se. Quote: Please tell me how the Netherlands got colonies? Not through peaceful persuasion of the local natives, methinks. Quote: If mankind was created 'out of the box', then how does this fit in with evolution? It doesn't. This is one of the main points of the creationist movement. [Edited on November 15, 2005 by Eckolin] ____________ Maker of Games... Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Need help with coding? I probably wrote something similar. |
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| November 15, 2005, 22:58 | |
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Rincewind
programmer 1545 posts
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 Happy investigating!
____________ Personal website: http://www.loijson.com |
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Message Board > Manly Pandas (Probably NSFW) > Is God's love unconditional?