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Message Board > Site bugs/ideas > Profanity

September 7, 2005, 20:26
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

Are we going to continue to block expletives? Because I think it would be really fucking stupid.
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 7, 2005, 21:16
Frimkron
Frustrated Megalomaniac
703 posts

Its up to you at the end of the day, Woodster, but I imagined this being a family show, no?
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September 7, 2005, 23:49
TheMI3
Starving Artist
520 posts

I think we should have some words censored. Obviously most kids swear and know the words, but what if their parents constantly look over their shoulder or have some really uptight net nanny?
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September 8, 2005, 10:51
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

I don't think Boolean Soup is a "family-oriented website" and blocking swear-words will only backfire. Little monsters running around the board with their parents looking over their shoulders or not.

That's just me, though. I'm looking for a general consensus.
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 8, 2005, 13:32
Frimkron
Frustrated Megalomaniac
703 posts

Its not just a case of whether there are youngsters on here or not (there won't be) - some people are offended by bad language.

But maybe you're right - maybe people should be allowed to use whatever words they like.

I'm undecided now.
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September 9, 2005, 02:48
Fiona
games are terrible
-9616558 posts

Anyone who is offended by so called "bad-language" has no business even looking at a mouse, and I dunno about you guys, but that's certainly not the type of people we're looking for in a community.
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laffo
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September 9, 2005, 03:53
Frimkron
Frustrated Megalomaniac
703 posts

Who are you to judge people based on something like that?
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September 9, 2005, 13:36
TheMI3
Starving Artist
520 posts

What if they're at work as well, having a forum open is one thing (verbal warning), but one with fuck and cock all over the screen is worse (never ending shame).
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September 10, 2005, 18:20
Sandman
F3n!x0r
1194 posts

Personally I find it a bit odd to censor words. When it is censored the MESSAGE of the word will get through, it will still be pointed as a 'bad' word and therefor the reader will still associate it with a 'bad' word, so the whole censoring thing is just like Christians blaming someone for swearing, they want him to NOT swear because THEY believe in a god. But "Geez" is allowed, although it has exactly the same message as "Jesus".
In any case, I'm not trying to offend anyone, not even Christians. And to conclude: I think you should be able to type whatever, because it is what YOU say and what YOU believe is right.
Oh and maybe having an it as an option, censored / not censored? So everyone will be happy. :)
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September 10, 2005, 18:34
Rincewind
programmer
1546 posts

Quoting Ferret:
Anyone who is offended by so called "bad-language" has no business even looking at a mouse


*Remembers that Raverdave once told Dennis he'd slice D's throat*

Man that was a funny situation :P


Anyway, I really don't care too much about words being censored or not, though I'd prefer uncensored because sometimes it's just necessary to make use of them to fully bring about your mood. If it gets too bad and somebody places a post full of bad swearing, then ofcourse such a post should be considered a war declaration to the well-being of Booleansoup, and sanctions should follow.

[Edited on September 10, 2005 by Rincewind]
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September 10, 2005, 21:02
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

Quoting Rincewind:
*Remembers that Raverdave once told Dennis he'd slice D's throat*

Man that was a funny situation :P

*nostalgia*
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 10, 2005, 23:27
PB
Defender of the faith
630 posts

Quoting Sandman:
Personally I find it a bit odd to censor words. When it is censored the MESSAGE of the word will get through, it will still be pointed as a 'bad' word and therefor the reader will still associate it with a 'bad' word, so the whole censoring thing is just like Christians blaming someone for swearing, they want him to NOT swear because THEY believe in a god. But "Geez" is allowed, although it has exactly the same message as "Jesus".
In any case, I'm not trying to offend anyone, not even Christians. And to conclude: I think you should be able to type whatever, because it is what YOU say and what YOU believe is right.
Oh and maybe having an it as an option, censored / not censored? So everyone will be happy. :)


As a Christian, I don't think it's fair to generalise. Personally I don't really use bad words to express my self*, but I think the parental argument is a better argument then the religious one.

The use of bad-words is easily becomes a habit, the people that use it, often don't seem to notice. I don't think you want your child to have such a habit as a parent, since it is very unhandy in situations where one needs to be polite.

I don't think it's smart to sensor words that can be used in the right context (like religious words, and words about sensitive subjects that are polite when used in context), but words that are impolite and can be replaced by politer words, could be censored.

I must say though, that I think people lack respect when they use religious words to express their discomfort. It happens a lot in The Netherlands and it hurts me almost every time I hear it. Many Dutch people seem to frequently say words that literally mean �God damn me�, which is actually a prayer to God to send them to hell.

Maybe words could be censored into politer words which would stay in context if they would be used in context. Of course, if you don't want net nannies and such detect this site as a site about that subject, then you should use normal censoring.

* I am aware that I have used bad words for the sake of humour** on the DIV chat a couple of times, but as far as I remember, that was only for the sake of humour. And I honestly still don't know what "stomachto" means...

** I did find out that is not a good reason to use those words though. People might quote you and put the quote on almost every forum you visit, you know... And even if he didn't, I still think it was a bad idea of mine (it's a bad example and you never know if you offend someone).


[Edited on September 10, 2005 by PB]
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September 10, 2005, 23:57
Frimkron
Frustrated Megalomaniac
703 posts

Quoting Sandman:
Personally I find it a bit odd to censor words. When it is censored the MESSAGE of the word will get through

Words are censored so that younger,more innocent, more impressionable ears (or eyes) do not pick up on them.

Can I just say that I thought Ferret's last post was disgraceful and it has been appologised for, since.

The bigger issue here is the question of what we want the site to be. If this site is just for us - i.e. this handful of people left over from the div forums - then of course we don't need swear filtering. In fact all we really need is a chatroom, somewhere to post crap, and a place to upload the odd game. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive this is what Woody and Ferret want the site to be. Just somewhere to hang out to replace div-arena. My idea of what Boolean Soup should be (or could be, at least) is different and I think this is why we're not seeing eye-to-eye on a lot of issues. I see Boolean Soup as being, in the future, a site for everyone - people of all ages. I suppose you could say I take this site more seriously. If we were going to make this site into something bigger then we would have to lay down some ground rules and this would include some about swearing, I suppose. At the very least we'd have to filter some words - and yes I know that it doesn't stop anybody but its more to show people that we're at least trying to maintain a polite atmosphere. That's the key - its about showing what we intend, rather than actually trying to automatically police peoples' posts. But as I say, this difference of opinions about the site in general is at the heart of this arguement - so maybe that's what we should be addressing.

[Edited on September 10, 2005 by Frimkron]
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September 10, 2005, 23:58
Rincewind
programmer
1546 posts

Quoting PBgamer:
I must say though, that I think people lack respect when they use religious words to express their discomfort. It happens a lot in The Netherlands and it hurts me almost every time I hear it. Many Dutch people seem to frequently say words that literally mean �God damn me�, which is actually a prayer to God to send them to hell.


"Goddammit" would be the english equivalent for that, though they want to damn *it*, and we want to damn *ourselves*. When somebody uses that term, it's obviously because it's a common swearing word and used to express big frustration. Nobody ever says that with the idea in mind talking about a god, so I'd say it's totally unrelated to it these days, don't let it hurt you as it is not meant to do so.

Edit(it seems I just posted at the same moment as Frimkron): Why not just try going without filter until something happens that can be seen as a clear reason to put a censorfilter in action?

[Edited on September 11, 2005 by Rincewind]
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September 11, 2005, 00:36
Sandman
F3n!x0r
1194 posts

I don't get it why people want to prohibit other people from swearing, even in the name of a god. They believe in it, I respect that, but they should respect me too if I want to express my frustration/anger/... They do it using "geez" or whatever synonym for the same, I do it by saying "jesus", without disguising what I REALLY MEAN, which obviously is done by saying "geez".
Once again I say: make it an OPTION, decide what to use as default, so everyone is happy.
Btw, it doesn't mean I go around the forum swearing in every corner. :P
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September 11, 2005, 01:01
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

Quoting Frimkron:
The bigger issue here is the question of what we want the site to be. If this site is just for us - i.e. this handful of people left over from the div forums - then of course we don't need swear filtering. In fact all we really need is a chatroom, somewhere to post crap, and a place to upload the odd game. I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive this is what Woody and Ferret want the site to be. Just somewhere to hang out to replace div-arena. My idea of what Boolean Soup should be (or could be, at least) is different and I think this is why we're not seeing eye-to-eye on a lot of issues. I see Boolean Soup as being, in the future, a site for everyone - people of all ages. I suppose you could say I take this site more seriously. If we were going to make this site into something bigger then we would have to lay down some ground rules and this would include some about swearing, I suppose. At the very least we'd have to filter some words - and yes I know that it doesn't stop anybody but its more to show people that we're at least trying to maintain a polite atmosphere. That's the key - its about showing what we intend, rather than actually trying to automatically police peoples' posts. But as I say, this difference of opinions about the site in general is at the heart of this arguement - so maybe that's what we should be addressing.

From the beginning I wanted Boolean Soup to start out as a better place for the DIV folks and later to (hopefully) draw in people from other languages, like your vision.

Of all ages? Perhaps. I've seen the way children can swarm a community like a pack of locusts, though -- uploading fifteen bajillion worthless games, using subhuman net lingo, being asses in general... I don't want a juvenile community. That's not to say I'd hate them off the bat, but I don't think we should be catering toward anyone who isn't mature enough to see some swear words (and we will certainly moderate excess profanity on the message board).

And besides, swear filters don't work. They're piss easy to circumvent if one were so inclined and most of them only create bad karma within the community.
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 11, 2005, 01:20
PB
Defender of the faith
630 posts

I think "geez" is the result of people trying to kill the habit, which might have become a habit to people too.

I believe and live by it that Jesus is a holy name, and God should be addressed to with respect. People who use His name as a swear word hurt me by it, not because of their intention, but because of the way they use a holy name.

I really regret it when I am amongst groups that use God's name in vein very often, because I slightly get used to it then. To me though, it still sounds as an insult to my God.

That you people actually try to say that I should not be offended by it, makes me slightly angry. To me it is so obviously blasphemy, that it shouldn't be necessary to defend my point.

There are many other ways to express your anger. You can use many words as swearwords, so I don�t think it�s necessary to use a word that might offend your environment. Although it seems some people worship it, I still think �shit� is a �bad word� that isn�t really that offensive compared to religious ones. Personally I hardly use the word anymore, but a good option I suppose.
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September 11, 2005, 01:22
Frimkron
Frustrated Megalomaniac
703 posts

Ok I think you've made a good point there Wood - We're not really going to be catering for anyone who isn't mature enough to see some swearing anyway.

But you shouldn't assume that there won't be any kids around. If the site ever gets popular there'll be lots of (and no offense is meant by this, bud) young DMs visiting. And any that are around should be welcomed and encouraged to make games with the rest of us.

And swearing shouldn't be encouraged. If we don't filter it we should at least take points off people for excessive offensive language.

[Edited on September 11, 2005 by Frimkron]
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September 11, 2005, 02:07
PEader
お前はもう死んでいる
1486 posts

Why not filter it and give an option in the user control panel to turn it off?

Also could I suggest this; if you're going to filter it just hide the entire word or asterix it entirely.

[Edited on September 11, 2005 by PEader]
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September 11, 2005, 04:15
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

Quoting PB:
I believe and live by it that Jesus is a holy name, and God should be addressed to with respect. People who use His name as a swear word hurt me by it, not because of their intention, but because of the way they use a holy name.

Isn't it God's responsibility to punish people who take his name in vain? I'm only sending myself to hell when Windows XP decides to uninstall itself with no warning and I start throwing religious names around, right?
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 11, 2005, 11:52
Rincewind
programmer
1546 posts

Quoting Woody:
Isn't it God's responsibility to punish people who take his name in vain? I'm only sending myself to hell when Windows XP decides to uninstall itself with no warning and I start throwing religious names around


This conversation triggers masochism.
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Personal website: http://www.loijson.com
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September 11, 2005, 12:20
PB
Defender of the faith
630 posts

Quoting Woody:
Isn't it God's responsibility to punish people who take his name in vain? I'm only sending myself to hell when Windows XP decides to uninstall itself with no warning and I start throwing religious names around, right?

In the end God will do justice, that is certainly true. I don't think that English or American easily literally say "God damn me", which is what I was talking about when I said someone prays to be sent to hell.

But seriously, people aren't saying religious things to get them selves into hell. They say it either out of frustration or derision. I think mostly out of their own frustrations, but still that doesn't justify it.

When you commit a crime, you can say "it's the responsibility of the government to punish me" or you can just not commit the crime, because it's your responsibility not to do it.
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September 11, 2005, 12:27
Rincewind
programmer
1546 posts

But aaaaaanyway, nobody is going to mention that word on the forum because it's used for realtime frustration, and a message on a forum isn't real-time.

Really, we're only going to get the usual 'fuck' variations and perhaps a few times "IM GOING TO SHOOT YOU WITH MY DESERT EAGLE".
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September 11, 2005, 15:49
Woody
HEAD BLACK MAN
722 posts

Quoting PB:
When you commit a crime, you can say "it's the responsibility of the government to punish me" or you can just not commit the crime, because it's your responsibility not to do it.

It's not my responsibility if it's not my religion. That's like following the laws of China while I'm in the United States.
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boredome is the bitter fruit of too much routine
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September 11, 2005, 18:34
TheMI3
Starving Artist
520 posts

Personally, I think people should be allowed to say and do what they want to say and do so long as it doesn't negatively interfere with someone else's life. I believe that most of the people who are going to be here are grown up enough to say fuck without being too offended, PB excluded maybe. Most kids know the words, I'm just worried that the forum will just turn into a playground where jonny and his mates can type fuck and shit and not get told to shut up or they'll get their mouths washed out.

I think PB brings up a good point about religious terms, some terminology that may offend chrisitians or scientologists or whatever are unlikely to offend our unwashed athiest/agnostic minds.

Just make the filter an option, that way (almost) everyone is happy. And have the default option with the filter in the 'on' position.

[Edited on September 11, 2005 by TheMI3]
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